Mortgage 101 – Pride in Homeownership

Clinton Wilkins and Dan Ahlstrand welcome Blair Patterson to discuss the importance of community involvement and the challenges faced by the LGBTQ+ community in home ownership.

Dan Ahlstrand
And we are back. This is Mortgage 101. I’m Dan Ahlstrand. He is Clinton Wilkins, and Clinton, we have a special guest in the studio.

Clinton Wilkins
We do. We have somebody from my team here. I know you’ve met a few of them now over the years, and we have Blair Patterson here from my Halifax office, and he’s our special guest this month.

Dan Ahlstrand
So you’re going to dish on Clinton and what it’s like to work for him?

Blair Patterson
I say this every year. Wonderful to work for. No one’s holding a gun to my head.

Clinton Wilkins
Most of the time. And, it’s it’s the month of July, and Pride in Halifax is literally right around the corner. I don’t know if you’ve been by our Halifax office or our Dartmouth office, but we have beautiful murals done on the windows, and in years gone by, we’ve wrapped our windows and stuff. But we actually hired a local artist this time, and we’ve done like a whole design, which is very, very cool. And we’re getting a little bit of raction with that, which I think is which I think is great. And I think in this day and age, people are like, well, why do you still need to have pride? It’s like being gay is the in thing. I think it’s so like accepting, and, and and all and all that stuff. But he had one thing that kind of hit home to me, and this is one thing that I saw in the news. I don’t know. Did you see the thing about Costco where this guy freaked out? Maybe it wasn’t a gay thing that he was freaking out about, but he was freaking out for a group of minorities, and I think that so ties into why we still need to have pride. As much as in Halifax and Atlantic Canada, we think that we have a very liberal overall environment. I think that there still is a lot of hatred and unaware people who are not aware and not accepting and stuff like that. And it’s not just here; it’s really across the world. We are very lucky, I think, in Nova Scotia and in Canada. But overall, not everyone has the same security.

Dan Ahlstrand
Pride is a month that we can celebrate a part of our community, and we kind of like to party here, so let’s let’s let’s use it as a good reason to reaffirm to people that love is love and let’s have some fun.

Blair Patterson
Yeah, like what you said, people want to feel safe when they’re dealing with someone. And on Facebook, I see it all the time. I’m looking for a queer-friendly mortgage broker. They’re just looking for advice from people in their community, essentially.

Clinton Wilkins
And now, Blair, I don’t. Was it last year you did a drag queen education video, didn’t you, on Instagram or something?

Blair Patterson
Yeah, it was two years ago. I did mortgage education with a drag queen. Very entertaining, and I think it’s still on YouTube if you search for it.

Clinton Wilkins
Maybe you’ll have to bring that back up to the forefront here when Prides starts next week.

Blair Patterson
I’ve done stuff like that, and also just sponsored a lot of community events, LGBT curling clubs, and paddling clubs. So I think our commitment to the community is huge for our brokerage.

Clinton Wilkins
Yeah, and I mean, I think when you’re talking about things like home ownership, it’s so daunting already, and I think overall, owning a property and putting down roots in the community, people typically get more involved, getting in more involved with some of these, organization that Blair, you’ve been able to support over the last couple of years, and I think overall the percentage of home ownership from like the queer community is quite low. I think sometimes there are some socioeconomic challenges, but to be frank, you really need two incomes in today’s world to buy a home, at least here in Halifax and really across a lot of regions in Atlantic Canada. And I think that’s sometimes tough. I think a lot of queer people they’re not in relationships, and I think that’s,, I think that’s challenging to then get into that home ownership.

Blair Patterson
Yeah, for sure. I think it’s challenging on one income. I will say the market has shifted since COVID. We’re in a more buyer-friendly market. There are more listings than ever. The government’s taking a lot of proactive approaches to get people into home ownership. The 2% down payment, the Nova Scotia down payment assistance. So I think if you reach out to a broker, there can be a solution for you, whether you’re one income, two incomes, no matter what community you’re from.

Dan Ahlstrand
We talked in the last segment about putting a product in front of people where they are, right? And the LGBTQ community is part of our community. Is part of our community, and why not have products and services that are geared to that community? Because, as you said, it’s the biggest financial deal you’re ever going to make. It’s the it’s this that’s going to be a mortgage that lasts you most of your life. It’s already a stressful situation. Why not make that part of it, which is easy enough for us to do, that much easier?

Clinton Wilkins
I 100% agree, and we understand. I think that’s where it’s important. I’m not sure if you walk into a bank branch, if you’re going to have the same level of service or the same level of understanding. I’ve been doing this for 21 years, Dan, and obviously, there are a lot of things that have changed over the last 20-plus years. But I can tell you, when I had an application with two people of the same sex, I would definitely get asked all the time, What is the relationship here? And I think in the past it has been perceived to be riskier when two people are buying a home who are not married. I’m not saying that queer people can’t get married because obviously they get married, but I get more questions from lenders about what that relationship is, and they are taking that into account based basically on their risk profile. I can tell you that shifted a lot over the last couple of years. I don’t remember the last time a lender asked me, but I can tell you that 20 years ago, they wanted like detailed notes around what was going on. And I think on that note, we’re actually even seeing more friends buy properties together, where you need that two-income household. Well, maybe it’s two people who are not in a relationship, or maybe who knows what their relationship status is, but we need those incomes, and they’re choosing to buy a piece of real estate together.

Dan Ahlstrand
So tell me a little bit about that. If somebody’s trying to enter into a mortgage and they aren’t married, then is the process different?

Blair Patterson
Yeah, on the application, you will state what their status is, whether it’s common law, just friends, family, that type of thing. So it’s not too complicated, but you need to make notes of it and let the lender know exactly the relationship to everyone.

Clinton Wilkins
And I think part of the reason that they want to know is, let’s say it’s two friends that end up buying a property together. They want to know what that exit strategy is. What happens if something goes wrong with this friendship? I mean, relationships are just as risky, maybe riskier, potentially. We argue that, but they do want to know. When someone’s in a relationship, and let’s say that relationship does break down, there are processes to dissolve that relationship. I think it’s more challenging when it’s two friends because then it’s almost like a business relationship or something like that when they’re buying a house. So what is that exit strategy? And I would encourage people, if you’re not married, whether you’re common law or you’re in some type of domestic partnership or you’re together or with someone or it’s two friends buying a property together, you should get a cohabitation agreement. Know what the finances look like going into it. We had a family law lawyer here on our show, and that was the one callout that he made. If you’re going to get into a real property relationship with someone, get an agreement because it’s a lot better to know what the situation is when times are good than to need to worry about fighting with someone. If there is a breakdown in the relationship, whether that is friends or whether that is a relationship queer or otherwise, obviously, married people a whole different situation. When you’re married or if you are domestic partners in the province, it’s different. And I think that’s where sometimes people get confused. Common law, in the eyes of the federal government, is not the same as a common law domestic partner in the province of Nova Scotia. In Nova Scotia, you can go down to Service Nova Scotia and register as a domestic partnership, and then you will get the same legal rights as a married person. You just living with someone for six months or a year, and maybe filing your income tax together-that’s not common law in the eyes of the province. So when we’re talking about things like health decision-making and things like the Matrimonial Property Act, it doesn’t apply to federal common law folks.

Dan Ahlstrand
Is it a big process?

Clinton Wilkins
No, I think you can just like literally go down and pay a little fee and be like, “Hey, I’m a domestic partner.” Yeah, I think it’s a lot easier than getting married.

Dan Ahlstrand
It’s cheaper.

Clinton Wilkins
It’s probably cheaper, but I think it’s probably you if you’re dissolving, I mean, you still have to dissolve, but you’re not getting divorced per se. So yeah, domestic partnership and common law are separate, and I think a lot of people who think they’re common law feel that they have the rights of a domestic partnership situation, and they don’t. So I think that’s worth calling out.

Dan Ahlstrand
That’s something else that you would bring up outside of the paperwork. Would you bring that up? Would a lawyer need to get involved in something like that?

Clinton Wilkins
I don’t think a lawyer would need to get involved, but people would need to make a decision and know what their rights are. And the rights are very different from someone who has a I’ll call it a federal common law relationship or a domestic partnership in the province of Nova Scotia- so I think that’s that that’s very different, and you should know what your rights are going into it. Also, when we have two borrowers, there are two different ways they can take the title, so they can take the title as joint tenants and. And that means that if something happens to one of them, say one of them passes away, their interest would then automatically go to the other person. There are also tenants in common where potentially the ownership share is 50-50, but maybe it could be as wild as, like, 90-nine one, or anywhere in between. And what happens in a tenants in common situation is that if something were to happen to one borrower, let’s say they were to pass away, their interest would then go to their estate, not automatically to that other person. So that could be a good way to handle it if you’re, two two friends are buying, or it could be a good way to handle it if two people are not married and buying a home together, if their percent percentage ownership is going to be different than 5050 and if their interest is not to automatically give their interest to their to the other party if something were to happen to them.

Dan Ahlstrand
July is Pride in Homeownership on Mortgage 101. We’re going to take a short break, then carry on the conversation. See you in a bit.